I got a chance to have a conversation HEX Lead Developer Dan Clark at GenCon. We discussed a wide range of topics including:
- Dan’s GenCon experiences throughout the years
- His thoughts on interacting with the KickStarter backers
- How much time he gets to play/test Hex, his favorite deck types and cards
- Some interesting thoughts on a number of game design-related areas:
- Novel Mechanics
- Not letting his personal preferences impact the overall design
You can find the audio in this post. Here’s the full transcript:
Interviewer: Dan, how did you end up at Cryptozoic?
Dan Clark: Cryptozoic also makes the WoW TCG card game, and I was formerly a player, played that. After talking with a few of the people that work in R&D, they asked me if I would like a job and I took it.
Interviewer: Excellent.
Dan Clark: Yeah. It’s nice to move from playing the game you love to working for the company that you love, so.
Interviewer: Yeah. It’s a careful balance, though, right, because sometimes it takes the things you really like and if you have to do them for a job, it’s not quite as exciting as it once was.
Dan Clark: Oh yeah, no no no. Once you see behind the veil and you are now trying to do the best game that you can possibly do for everybody to experience, for some reason once you get back and just play it for fun, it’s not quite the same.
Interviewer: Right ’cause you’re overanalyzing it and thinking -
Dan Clark: Yeah. I can never turn it off. It’s, “Oh, we could have done that with that card,” or “We maybe should have done this differently.” It’s hard to turn off, so.
Interviewer: What are you responsible for on HEX?
Dan Clark: I’m Development Lead on HEX, so that’s mostly tweaking a lot of the cards, balancing issues, making sure we’re providing the best experience possible, and it’s not a negative play experience for a lot of decks. Then, I work in close conjunction with Ben, who’s lead on design, and try to push for certain paths that we might want to take and future plans for what we want to be, going down in future sets.
Interviewer: Sure. We’ll talk about game design in a little bit, but I want to talk about Gen Con in general, since we’re here.
Dan Clark: Sure.
Interviewer: How many times have you been?
Dan Clark: I have been to Gen Con every year since 2004 now, I think.
Interviewer: Almost 10 years, right?
Dan Clark: Every year, yeah.
Interviewer: Before this year, what would you say was your highlight?
Dan Clark: Oh wow. Gen Con is always such a great experience. It’s got to be the tournaments that I used to play in. I used to love playing, and it was too much fun. Even coming back now, I’m not playing in any tournaments, but it feels at home. It’s nice to be here. Everybody is just, you come here and you do your thing. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing, you’re at home, you just have fun.
Interviewer: Are the same people around? Do you run into the same people that you used to play with in those tournaments?
Dan Clark: Oh yeah, you still see people that you haven’t seen in eight or nine years, and get to say hi and see what they’re up to.
Interviewer: The Kickstarter was a big deal. What’s it been like to actually talk to some of the backers while you’ve been here?
Dan Clark: It’s been great. Everybody’s so positive. None of this would have been possible without the help of everybody that’s come together. This game is going to be successful with a great community, and we started off on such a good foot with everybody that’s so excited to get to see the game and be a part of it. I’m really excited to move forward and be able to have the best experience for everybody and communicate with the community.
We want to let everybody know that we are gamers, and we’re always available to have talks and communication. Let me know if you think a card is broken. Let me know what you find the best experience, and we’ll try to implement that.
Interviewer: I think that’s one of the reasons why people are so invested in this is because they feel like you might not agree with everything that people say, but people feel like they’re at least being listened to, so there’s a dialogue.
Dan Clark: We want to make it a game for everybody. Everybody should get to have a say, and there’s so many different aspects to this game, too, that pretty much no matter what you are, you will be able to find your own place in this game. We want to make sure that we’re always taking feedback from people and improving the experience for everybody.
Interviewer: What’s your favorite bit about Gen Con this year?
Dan Clark: I really enjoy seeing people in costumes.
Interviewer: Really? So, Princess Cory?
Dan Clark: Yeah. I got my picture with him, actually. I put it up on my Facebook.
Interviewer: Excellent. What are you looking forward to for the next two days? Is there something you’re gonna do while you’re here?
Dan Clark: I’m really looking forward to the dinner tonight. I want to be able to mingle with people. But just being here and getting to see so many old faces. Everybody’s so friendly. It’s such a positive experience that I’m just gonna enjoy every part of it.
Interviewer: Excellent. Talk a little bit about game design, then. I’m interested in whether or not there was a card or mechanic that was originally in Set One that didn’t make the cut and that made you sad. You thought, “I really liked this, but there’s not a place for it.”
Dan Clark: There certainly has been quite a few of those things. It’s difficult to remember though, ’cause there’s so many different moving pieces going on. Once you move past, “Okay, we can’t do this any more,” it almost -
Interviewer: Fades into memory?
Dan Clark: Yeah. There will be plenty of times where we’ll come up with a new mechanic that’s, “Oh wait, this is kind of like something that we’ve canned before.” So you still remember it, but it’s hard to grasp. But let’s see, some of the things I’ve been upset… There’s a few designs that I liked that you just can’t really do just ’cause some of the ways that they play just are not a great experience. They’re too ticky tacky and takes too long to resolve, or something.
Some of my favorite cards are any card that is a head game, essentially. Like Alabaster Sphinx we just previewed recently, and that’s the one where you get to select a troop, and then if they select what you’ve selected, they get it. If they don’t, you get it. So, I really appreciate games like that.
A lot of times in the actual tabletop card games, you can’t really do things like that because obviously there’s an amount of secrecy that is difficult to resolve, but also there is some amount of a feel-bad experience if you lose those types of games. But in the digital environment, it’s actually a lot easier to move past that. You’re not sitting across from the person. You get to enjoy it a little bit more.
Interviewer: Was there anything specifically that didn’t make it, but it was because it was technically not possible at the moment, but it was put into Set Two or Set Three?
Dan Clark: Everything that we’ve come up with that is technically not possible at this time is so cool that I don’t want to spoil it for once we do get the technology to implement it and are able to do that correctly.
Interviewer: So presumably, that means that – a lot of the mechanics currently are standard TCG mechanics, right? They have different names, but we’re all pretty comfortable with having used them in the past. You’re pretty confident there are things that are completely different from things we’ve seen in the past?
Dan Clark: Yes. We are a digital game, and that is a very important part of making sure it’s, “This is a new experience and we want to get as many digital things in there.” Since we’re just starting off, if we go over the rails on how much new stuff is going on, it can get a little crazy. We want to ease people into it.
So with each set, we’ll be trying to implement more and more stuff like, “Hey, look at this!” Once people get accustomed to the game and what’s going on, we’ll be able to do more and more stuff, plus when we’re able to implement the things, too.
Interviewer: Right ’cause actually, I think even Set One, as an example, inspires a pretty complicated mechanic because it’s tough to keep track of all the things it potentially does. It’s clear that if you weren’t playing in a digital format, it would be really tricky to make sure that things were going right. You clearly play quite a bit. You do a lot of testing, I’m sure. What’s your favorite deck archetype?
Dan Clark: I really like Dwarves. I don’t really necessarily care if I win or not, I just want to do my cool thing. Dwarves let me tinker around and build whatever cool stuff I want to do. I really like the Inspiration Engine, and just start making things at random.
Interviewer: Do you know that Cory gave me exactly the same answer?
Dan Clark: It’s such a cool card.
Interviewer: How, then, do you stop that from influencing your design decisions or the things that you say -
Dan Clark: You have to be disciplined. You have to recognize that this is something that you want, not something that’s for the better of the game.
Interviewer: Right. It’s easier said than done though, right?
Dan Clark: It is, but as I was saying before, after you see behind the veil, your mindset is really geared towards what’s best for the game, not what’s best for me. So, it just got a lot easier, in time. There’s still a lot of things where it’s, “I would really appreciate this, so I’m gonna try to push for it,” but that’s gonna only ever be a one-card design or something like that. I would never damage a mechanic or something because it was something that I really wanted to see go through.
Interviewer: So presumably, you worked on the WoW trading card game first and then you moved onto HEX. Is HEX basically the highlight for you, or -
Dan Clark: Yeah. I’m having a lot of fun working on HEX. There’s a lot of new things. It was difficult to make the transition of, you need to stop thinking of ways to do things in your traditional card game and you need to get into the digital’s mindset. It’s still constantly a transition. We keep getting better and better at what we’re doing, and it’s just gonna get better form here on out.
Interviewer: Are you spending a lot of time on the PVE stuff or -
Dan Clark: Yeah, I dabble into the PVE, although I move over and give balancing feedback and we talk about ways to implement different things that we’re moving forward with and what’s gonna be the best experience for the PVE players. So yeah, I __________ PVP, but I work a lot of the PVE, as well.
Interviewer: Excellent. Well, I appreciate the time.
Dan Clark: Of course. Thank you very much.
Interviewer: I don’t want to keep you too much longer, but it was good to meet you and I’m sure I’ll see you this evening, as well.
Dan Clark: Yeah, I look forward to it. Thank you.
Interviewer: Thank you.
[End of Audio]